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[OBG] Nature of Race Full

(2015-Sep-09, 22:37:50)Chuck Wrote: You can't even answer my questions.


Here is a list of them. Please answer each.

(1) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...52#pid3452

"Would you at least agree that this latter sense has currency in biology? Dobzhansky summarized the idea nicely -- and even employed the book analogy which you used. In case that it helps, I attached excerpts from his "Evolution Genetics and Mankind", which is available at https://archive.org/

Think the matter over and then let me know if you agree that races, as I define them, form natural divisions in the above sense -- and if this sense has currency"

(2) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...55#pid3455

Do you agree that the entities often called "populations", "clusters", "biogeographic ancestry groups" can, based on historic term usage and insofar as they actually cut out what I call races, legitimately be called "races"?

(3) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...62#pid3462

I don't think that Garn equated races with demes -- but I will have to read more of his articles to be sure. That is, I imagine that his races were like Dobzhansky's where while all races are "Mendelian populations", not all Mendelian populations -- specifically demes which were not genetically "distinct" -- are races. Thus, he notes that his races share a fraction of genes in common. Strictly speaking demes do not need to. Would not you agree?

(4) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...80#pid3480

You are making one of two arguments here:
(1) "race concept isn't useful because there is more variation in populations than between them" which precludes the accurate classification of humans into racial (i.e., genealogy-based) groups.
(2) "race concept isn't useful because there is more variation in populations than between them" which means that differences between said-human groups are of no importance.

Could you clarify which one? ... Now, before I discuss the problem with argument (2) above, I would like you to clarify whether you mean (1, or 2). If (2), could you clarify the logic? Specifically, how would you quantify "importance" in terms of average racial difference?

(5) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...81#pid3481

Here, I see two arguments:
(a) race typologists in the early 20th century (generally) argued that the variation between races was non-trivial/major.
(b) race theorists prior to Boas (generally) argued that the variation between races was non-trivial/major.

Would you agree that monogenists such as Prichard argued that the variation was relatively unimportant -- since it was of the intraspecific type?

A problem with both claims about the bimetric typologists is that "non-trivial/major"/"trivial/minor" is a somewhat subjective estimate; as such, it's difficult to put claims on a common metricand to evaluate if they overestimated differences.

So how would you propose to evaluate early 20th century qualitative claims? I would think that we would just look at their quantitative data. Isn't it reasonable to assume that they thought that differences were no larger than their reported data showed? If so, since they present the data with means and standard deviations we can just look at that. If it shows differences no larger than what is now known, we can conclude that they though that differences were no larger or significant than they quantitatively are. If so, then I would just have to show that their metrical data was not greatly off to show that their evaluations were not. Do you agree?

(6) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...89#pid3489

Naturally enough, I explicitly formulated the concept such to be consistent with divergence due to isolation by distance (e.g., page 41) -- which is to say a continuum due to primary intergradation. This is what distinguishes it from e.g., Shiao's "clinal class" one (see page 64).

Now you quote:

"Therefore, there is no reason to assume that major genetic discontinuities exist between different continents or races."
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/14/9/1679.full

You know that I know the history of this debate at least as well as you do, so I don't see why you would cite the above. Shiao (2014) addressed this in his defense of his clinal class concept. But of course, you are right, my stance is:

(a) one could "arbitrarily divide" a "genetic continuum" into races.

Of course, I anticipated objections to this position and discussed them lengthy. Which parts of my discussions didn't you find convincing? Do you want me to refer you to the specific sections or to elaborate on specific points?

(7) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...89#pid3489

Pearson's comment suggests that he was overestimating the relative magnitude of between group differences -- though it is not clear as it's not clear if Pearson was discussing multivariate distance (his coefficient of likeness, which was a primitive form of Mahalanobis distance) or average differences. Whatever the case, the very occurrence of this discussion calls your claim of a general view of homogenous races into question. And once you admit that variability was recognized, you are forced to double down on your claim that biometric typologists felt that variability within populations arose from the admixture of distinct homogenous groups. Yet it is clear that they didn't believe in originally distinct homogenous races. Thus Pearson notes....

If they diverged from a common stock in continuous degree and now contain enough variability such that a " Coefficient of Racial Likeness" is needed when and how were they ever homogenous groups in the sense you mean?

(8) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...91#pid3491

To preclude confusion, let's distinguish issues:

(1) whether or not the natural division concept of race is coherent
(2) whether or not such and such characters are reliable indexes of evolutionary relationship (and thus reliable indexes of racial membership)

Recall this discussion on reliability
http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...47#pid3447

Could you clarify which point you wish to discuss in relation to the forensic data?

(9) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...97#pid3497

As held by whom? Buffon, Blumenbach, Esper, Prichard, Darwin, Quatrefages ...? Specifically, list the many early (hence "traditional") proponents of race (as divisions of a species) who maintained that these divisions were -- moreover were definitionally so -- marked by "abrupt change" or "sharp discontinuity". I do not want to hear Naomi Zack's bullshit; I want specific "traditional" references.

(10) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...09#pid3509

But I like to settle one point at a time. When you concede that races per se were not typically thought of as deeply discontinuous and were often recognized to be continuous I will revisit the question of original -- "in situ" -- homogeneity.

[Do you concede this?]

(11) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...13#pid3513

Krom: Grover Krantz was a proponent of race. Unlike you he wasn't trying to redefine the concept.

How possibly are his "micro-races" qua micro geographical populations more authentic than my natural division ones?

(12) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...18#pid3518

Krom: but the fact most biologists do not regard categories like "Caucasoid", or "Negroid" to be useful.

Could you point us to the surveys which show that most biologists do not consider such and such race concepts to apply meaningfully to modern humans?

(13) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...66#pid3566

Do you agree that when an author claims that there are "large" differences between such and such races this does not entail that her concept of race necessitates such differences? Yes or no?

(14) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...74#pid3574

Would you honestly argue that this wasn't revisionist? (Please answer.) That early race concepts proposed treeness in Templeton's sense of having little admixture, great isolation, and significant discontinuities (Didn't we discuss this?) or that early concepts required high between group genetic variation -- when the concept of "gene" was not developed until the late 19th to early 20th century. Or that race was always identified with subspecies, when the race concept preceded that latter and given that authors often drew the distinction between subspecies in the taxonomic sense and race. Or that early subspecies concepts required the types of differences now seen as sufficiently taxonomically significant -- actually there are no formal criteria; and the only generally accepted rule of thumb is the 75% one, by which major human races qualify as taxa subspecies --for BSC subspecies recognition.

(15) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...85#pid3585

To sum up, if you wish to argue that race is only a useful classification if all races in a given species at a given time are given names then you must either (a) maintain that races must be taxa or (b) contend that same holds for all other like classifications e.g., "deme", "(spatial) population", "morph", "biotype", "stock", "strain", "cluster", "form", "ecotype", "groups" (i.e., assemblages of closely related taxa), "semispecies", and "super-species". Which will it be? You will have to adopt either an absurd position (b) or a revisionist one (a).

2. Regarding races and levels of analysis, which of the following would you like to maintain were not infrequently recognized as races (in the sense which I mean)?


(16) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...95#pid3595

Esper is saying that subspecies/races are not the same as inconstant varieties ("plane ab his sunt separandae") because like species, and unlike inconstant varieties, they reproduce their separate type ("Ad procreandam sobolem eamque ipsis aequalem aptae"). But, he notes, they are also not like species, because they originated from species ("Originem ex speciebus duxisse"), similar to how inconstant varieties do ("caussa qua fuere mutatae eadem manente"), which is obvious because they lack essential or species-like differences ("perfectus in iis declarat partium essentialium similitudo"). That is, according to Esper, different subspecies/races, while distinct ("Characteríbus autem pariter sunt distinctae") are essentially the same and thus unlike species.

Now, perhaps you can explain how you get "subspecies require "perfect similarity" in certain traits" from " Originem ex speciebus duxisse, perfectus in iis declarat partium essentialium similitudo". And while you are at it, perhaps you can explain how Esper's statement that subspecies are while different essentially the same fits with your narrative.

(17) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...01#pid3601

For example, North and South America form two massive genogamodemes, but surely not two biogeographic ancestry groups or natural divisions. Thus, what I call race -- and what was often called race -- is not redundant with what you call deme.

So that we can move forward, can you either concur or disagree?

(18) Here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...03#pid3603

If my race concept is not useful, then why is it so often used, just under different names e.g., "biogeographic ancestry groups", "genetic clusters", etc?



Thanks.

P.S. from my last post:

2. races need not be taxa subspecies (taxa); [Do you agree?] if they must, explain how nested races are possible; if nested races are not, explain why the literature on race continually discusses them.

3. natural divisions are not necessarily demes. [Do you agree?] If you think otherwise explain.

4. races were never generally historically conceptualized as being "relatively discontinuous or more-or-less isolated " Thus: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...04#pid3504 Agree?

5. Templeton's taxa subspecies criterion was made up. [Do you agree?] If you disagree, explain why he was unable to provide me with a reference which supported his claim and why the reference he provided in his papers didn't. Just search "Templeton" in my paper.

6. If taxa subspecies need to be discontinuous, explain Albrecht, Gelvin, and Miller (2003): "Population structure refers to the geographic arrangement of local populations across the species' range. Population structure can be described in terms of three phenomena: the population continuum, geographic isolates, and zones of secondary intergradation (hybrid zones) (e.g., Mayr and Ashlock, 1991). The population continuum is that part of the species' range where there is continuity of contact among local populations, some of which may be recognized as subspecies if sufficiently differentiated." Previously discussed here: http://openpsych.net/forum/showthread.ph...13#pid3513

...

The delineation of all natural divisions is constrained by propinquity of descent, an objective reality. So, along that dimension they are not arbitrary. Given a perfect population continuum, which typically doesn't exist, you could though "arbitrarily" cut out non-overlapping regions of IDB-genomic space. To conceptualize race otherwise would be to conceptualize it inconsistent with historical usage (point 4), no?

....

Is propinquity of descent (ancestry informative molecular relatedness) "nothing more than my own mental construct"? If not than races necessarily aren't either [, no?].

....

That would depend on which races we were discussing, no? For example, the average SNP fst difference between North East Asians and West Africans ~ 0.15. The difference between individuals is ~ 1/2*(1-between race), so the ratio of between individual, betwee race to between individual, within race is ~ 0.15/0.425. That's trivial? Given what metric?
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Messages In This Thread
[OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-25, 21:33:36
MERGE - by Emil - 2015-Apr-08, 16:15:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full Version [merged] - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-08, 18:51:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-08, 18:58:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Apr-11, 02:04:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-11, 04:49:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Apr-11, 16:19:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-12, 23:00:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-15, 00:59:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-16, 18:34:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-19, 00:55:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 04:37:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-04, 20:55:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-16, 19:52:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-16, 21:53:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-16, 23:16:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 01:21:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 02:12:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 05:33:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 11:03:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 18:27:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 21:22:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 23:14:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 19:54:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-18, 05:23:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-18, 21:54:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-20, 19:56:33
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-20, 20:48:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-20, 20:54:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-28, 22:35:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-28, 23:40:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-30, 00:41:29
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-30, 01:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-30, 00:59:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-28, 22:43:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-29, 00:02:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-May-01, 00:12:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 03:26:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-01, 03:48:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 05:10:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-04, 19:58:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 04:40:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-05, 17:53:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 17:58:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-05, 19:44:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-May-05, 20:15:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 22:19:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-06, 10:15:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-07, 03:35:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-07, 11:27:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-08, 01:13:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-08, 10:24:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-08, 12:05:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-08, 12:28:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-25, 00:29:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-25, 00:59:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-01, 15:56:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-May-06, 18:41:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-07, 03:12:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-07, 08:24:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-31, 09:57:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-31, 19:04:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 23:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jun-01, 07:48:29
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-01, 13:16:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 03:15:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jun-01, 16:21:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 00:00:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-02, 11:28:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jun-02, 01:14:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jun-05, 09:23:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-05, 09:40:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-16, 22:46:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 03:53:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 09:24:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 13:37:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 13:45:53
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 13:54:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 13:56:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 16:25:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-18, 04:45:00
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-03, 20:17:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-03, 20:44:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-03, 20:52:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-03, 23:26:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 01:09:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 06:18:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 07:43:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 17:48:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-05, 03:47:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 00:28:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-08, 01:58:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 01:13:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 02:51:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 05:07:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 09:25:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 09:34:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 06:28:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 07:54:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jul-04, 15:02:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 18:32:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-05, 04:23:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 01:07:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-08, 02:22:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-05, 03:34:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-06, 08:33:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 23:42:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-09, 07:34:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-09, 22:08:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-10, 06:52:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-09, 10:04:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-10, 22:33:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-12, 06:44:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-16, 00:23:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-11, 03:30:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-12, 07:12:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 16:25:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:00:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 20:46:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 16:45:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:09:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:44:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 23:18:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-20, 02:54:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 21:19:51
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 00:47:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-22, 20:38:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-22, 21:55:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-23, 06:03:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 07:27:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 23:24:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 19:51:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 04:59:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 05:26:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 20:27:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 02:28:40
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jul-23, 04:19:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-23, 04:26:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 06:18:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Zoidberg - 2015-Jul-23, 06:42:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 20:23:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 00:01:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 02:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-27, 06:55:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 17:56:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jul-27, 23:14:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:38:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-28, 04:00:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 22:01:51
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 02:58:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:05:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:26:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 07:49:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-29, 12:58:37
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 23:19:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jul-30, 01:02:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:35:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 05:46:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 18:37:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-29, 17:27:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 22:57:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:15:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 04:36:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:41:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 10:05:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:57:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 09:45:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 05:52:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 05:58:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 06:00:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 06:08:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 16:47:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-28, 20:07:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-29, 02:27:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-29, 05:54:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-29, 16:20:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 20:37:55
Behavior - by Emil - 2015-Aug-28, 21:13:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-30, 18:19:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-30, 20:04:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 13:47:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:04:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 00:42:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-01, 18:28:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 20:53:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 22:18:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 19:15:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:21:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:39:33
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 20:24:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 23:30:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 00:24:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 16:37:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-01, 19:15:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:45:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:54:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Sep-07, 03:44:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:53:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 19:20:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:58:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-08, 00:34:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 01:02:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 01:04:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:13:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 04:29:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:28:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 05:15:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 13:28:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 13:44:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 04:40:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 05:46:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 18:15:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 05:27:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 06:21:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 20:52:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 22:37:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 23:36:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 00:43:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 00:58:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 01:22:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:33:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 01:42:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:07:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:55:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 04:36:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 06:27:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 09:21:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 05:03:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 17:38:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 01:55:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 18:33:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 05:27:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:46:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 18:48:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 06:48:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:38:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:39:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:59:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:07:35
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:53:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-12, 00:04:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-13, 06:40:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Jan-21, 02:57:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Jan-21, 03:21:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2016-Jan-23, 19:14:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Jan-23, 21:07:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Jan-23, 21:30:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 01:35:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 02:33:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Feb-11, 06:45:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 07:37:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2016-Feb-11, 09:29:40
[OBG] Nature of Race part 1 & 2 - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-27, 02:48:10
[OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-30, 23:58:10
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2014-Dec-31, 18:11:25
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-01, 00:20:51
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-01, 15:37:35
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-01, 23:36:17
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-04, 07:01:40
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-04, 07:27:12
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-05, 18:57:40
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-08, 00:15:45
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-09, 01:16:53
[OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-09, 23:33:46
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 04:16:31
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 05:19:49
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 05:51:03
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 18:15:29
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 18:39:54
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 21:13:22
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 23:47:15
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 00:17:13
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-12, 03:56:59
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-12, 06:47:22
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-12, 18:31:23
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-12, 18:44:54
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 21:51:03
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 22:08:59
[OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-14, 04:25:25
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-14, 10:35:21
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-16, 21:34:48
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-17, 21:50:13
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-18, 02:46:31
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-18, 04:59:02
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-18, 06:00:51
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-19, 03:19:58
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-19, 21:02:17
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-20, 18:45:25
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 02:21:31
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 02:59:27
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 03:00:44
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-21, 11:00:51
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-22, 00:06:32
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-22, 03:26:56
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-22, 06:12:47
Some comments - by Emil - 2015-Jan-23, 21:01:32
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-24, 02:03:48
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-24, 06:57:50
Comments on version 3 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-24, 07:34:24
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-25, 05:19:51
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-25, 07:14:06
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-26, 02:29:36
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-26, 06:12:38
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-28, 04:42:41
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-30, 04:47:18
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Dalliard - 2015-Feb-04, 16:44:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Feb-12, 01:16:14
[OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-05, 22:39:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 01:33:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 01:36:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 04:23:24
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 22:05:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 23:43:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 23:59:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-07, 00:16:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-07, 03:00:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-07, 22:28:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-08, 03:25:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-08, 05:51:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-09, 03:27:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-09, 05:09:23
Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-13, 23:03:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by B.B. - 2015-Mar-19, 14:00:41
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-19, 17:21:11
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by B.B. - 2015-Mar-20, 13:13:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-19, 19:19:17
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-19, 19:27:20
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-20, 05:18:27
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 15:45:47
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-21, 17:51:14
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-24, 00:11:29
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-28, 21:00:38
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-29, 16:27:50
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-20, 21:26:44
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-21, 20:50:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-21, 21:49:27
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-21, 22:32:28
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-23, 02:14:31
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-24, 22:31:05
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-25, 01:03:09
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-25, 03:05:50
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-25, 03:20:05
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-25, 16:20:10
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-27, 22:49:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-27, 22:55:52
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-29, 19:42:54
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-30, 03:54:53
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-30, 21:27:12
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-30, 22:04:02
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-31, 05:18:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-31, 20:30:42
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-01, 00:11:29
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-01, 01:52:41
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-01, 18:10:07
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-01, 19:59:55
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-02, 19:14:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-02, 20:58:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-13, 23:06:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-13, 23:12:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-16, 04:19:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-17, 00:07:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-17, 02:01:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 14:31:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 19:21:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-20, 20:49:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-28, 20:28:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-29, 15:38:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-03, 03:22:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-03, 04:19:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 06:28:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 18:29:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 18:33:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 01:09:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 01:14:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 01:59:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 02:32:37
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 04:04:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 04:35:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 23:26:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-06, 02:02:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-06, 03:39:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-06, 20:07:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-06, 21:32:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-10, 01:36:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-10, 05:56:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-10, 06:27:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-11, 00:28:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-11, 01:11:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-13, 02:55:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-13, 07:08:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-13, 21:41:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-14, 01:50:31
 
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