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[OBG] Nature of Race Full

(2015-Jul-29, 17:27:43)Krom Wrote: Grover Krantz was a proponent of race. Unlike you he wasn't trying to redefine the concept.


I was unable to locate any papers which he wrote on the topic. If you have a copy of his book send it along. A google search of the book mentioned turned up the following on page 18: "For special studies, as in comparing one gene pool with another in a limited area, such microgeographical populations may be a useful concept. They may be called micro-races."

How possibly are his "micro-races" qua micro geographical populations more authentic than my natural division ones? I can not comment more on his position since I do not have access to his book. None of this, of course, changes the fact that races, as divisions of a species, were not thought of as being permanent -- of course differences between them were thought of as being permanent in the sense of hereditary (hence "constant variety", but that's another matter.

As for Barbujani I discussed many of his arguments in my paper. He makes some annoying mistakes such as claiming that 85% of human genetic variance is between individuals, when actually almost half of it is within individuals. His claims are not infrequently sophistic, when not confused:

Quote:However, no classification is useful if the classification units are vague or controversial, and no consensus was ever reached on the number and definition of the human races.

Proponents of the race concept have largely reached a consensus -- did they ever typically think otherwise? -- that there can be no "true" number of races, just as there can be no true number of spatial populations and demes. Moreover, they do not claim to "define" races -- unless this means to describe or to delineate them. Also, why would a controversial classification be unitile? It is still controversial -- among e.g., certain sociologists -- to classify individuals by levels of mental ability, yet doing so is surely utile. This confuses scientific epistemology with sociopolitical desirability.

Quote:[However, clear-cut genetic boundaries between human groups, which would be necessary to recognise these groups as relatively isolated mating units which zoologists would call races, have not been identified so far.[/b] On the contrary, allele frequencies and synthetic descriptors of genetic variation appear distributed in gradients over much of the planet.

This sounds like weasley wording. No doubt zoologists would call relatively isolated interfertile mating units with clear cut boundaries races (if not phylogenetic diagnostic species), but this doesn't entail that they would not call units without such boundaries races. Indeed, as discussed in my paper, zoologists at times formally recognize races cut from a continuum (one which entails a lack of clear cut boundaries). As Albrecht et al (2003) note:

"Population structure refers to the geographic arrangement of local populations across the species' range. Population structure can be described in terms of three phenomena: the population continuum, geographic isolates, and zones of secondary intergradation (hybrid zones) (e.g., Mayr and Ashlock, 1991). The population continuum is that part of the species' range where there is continuity of contact among local populations, some of which may be recognized as subspecies if sufficiently differentiated."

Colin Groves, a well respected primatologist, has made a similar point: "[With subspecies] their interrelationships are genetically reticulate... they are simply the point along the continuum of population differentiation… at which it becomes worthwhile to give them a scientific name" (Groves, 2004)

Now, it is possible that Barbujani was unaware of this, but I suspect that he was being less than perfectly honest. As for this:

Quote:[i]n classical human genetic or physical anthropology textbooks races are envisaged as large populations of individuals who evolved together, share a significant fraction of their genes, and hence can be distinguished from other races by their common gene pool [12] or by different alleles fixed in each [13]. Under both definitions, races are necessarily separated by borders of increased biological variation.

Incredibly, He cites for [12], Vogel, F. and Motulsky, A.G. Human Genetics: Problems and Approaches, 2nd edn, Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 1986, 534

And for [13], Boyd, WC. Genetics and the Races of Man: An Introduction to
Modern Physical Anthropology. Little Brown, Boston, 1950,

As for Boyd refer back to my excerpt based summary of the book -- or to the actual one available on internet archives. Some relevant parts again:

Quote:Populations at two ends of such a gradient may be profoundly different in genetic constitution, but they may be connected by all grades of genetic variation between the two. In such a case, whether or not the systematist decides to break up the population into two or more sections and designate them as races is quite arbitrary. This decision will be based on considerations of expediency and nothing else. In favor of defining two or more races there will be the advantage of having unique simple reference names which apply to the various populations...Therefore, it is not all uncommon to find within a single species that two certain races may be easily separated from each other, while two other races show only a slight discontinuity where there populations meet or overlap....We may define a human race as a population which differs significantly from other human populations in regards to the frequency of one or more of the genes it possesses...Since every human individual has to belong to one or another of the four blood groups, the only racial difference we find, or can expect to find, will be differences in frequencies of the four groups among various populations.

I must have missed the parts, in Boyd's work, about having fixed allelic differences and being necessarily "separated by borders of increased variation". Could you point them out to me?

As for Vogel (1997), it is true that races share a "significant" fraction of genes in common" where significant means "enough to allow individuals of one race to be distinguished from ones of another". On the other hand, groups like "all the descendants of genghis khan" do not. So I fail to see the point or how if follows that the groups would need to be "separated by borders of increased biological variation." If we simply cut races out from two ends of a population continuum, individuals in each would share a "significant" enough fraction of genes in common. I suppose you would argue that Vogel meant something else by "significant", something which is now known to be inherently implausible, but wasn't in 1997. You can just look at his discussion of human variation to see, if this is what you are thinking, why you are wrong.

Generally, one of the problems seems to be that you are projecting your own interpretation on to ambiguous terms. Another is that you continue to rely on unreliable secondary sources.

How many of these secondary source claims have I debunked so far?
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Messages In This Thread
[OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-25, 21:33:36
MERGE - by Emil - 2015-Apr-08, 16:15:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full Version [merged] - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-08, 18:51:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-08, 18:58:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Apr-11, 02:04:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-11, 04:49:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Apr-11, 16:19:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-12, 23:00:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-15, 00:59:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-16, 18:34:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-19, 00:55:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 04:37:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-04, 20:55:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-16, 19:52:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-16, 21:53:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-16, 23:16:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 01:21:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 02:12:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 05:33:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 11:03:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 18:27:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 21:22:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-17, 23:14:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-17, 19:54:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-18, 05:23:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-18, 21:54:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-20, 19:56:33
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-20, 20:48:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-20, 20:54:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-28, 22:35:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-28, 23:40:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-30, 00:41:29
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-30, 01:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-30, 00:59:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Apr-28, 22:43:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-29, 00:02:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-May-01, 00:12:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 03:26:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-01, 03:48:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-01, 05:10:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-04, 19:58:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 04:40:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-05, 17:53:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 17:58:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-05, 19:44:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-May-05, 20:15:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-05, 22:19:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-06, 10:15:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-07, 03:35:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-07, 11:27:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-08, 01:13:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-08, 10:24:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-08, 12:05:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-08, 12:28:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-25, 00:29:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-25, 00:59:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-01, 15:56:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-May-06, 18:41:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-07, 03:12:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-May-07, 08:24:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-May-31, 09:57:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-May-31, 19:04:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 23:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jun-01, 07:48:29
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-01, 13:16:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 03:15:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jun-01, 16:21:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-02, 00:00:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-02, 11:28:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jun-02, 01:14:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jun-05, 09:23:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-05, 09:40:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-16, 22:46:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 03:53:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 09:24:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 13:37:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 13:45:53
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 13:54:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2015-Jun-17, 13:56:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-17, 16:25:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jun-18, 04:45:00
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-03, 20:17:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-03, 20:44:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-03, 20:52:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-03, 23:26:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 01:09:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 06:18:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 07:43:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 17:48:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-05, 03:47:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 00:28:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-08, 01:58:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 01:13:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 02:51:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 05:07:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 09:25:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 09:34:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 06:28:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-04, 07:54:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jul-04, 15:02:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-04, 18:32:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-05, 04:23:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 01:07:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-08, 02:22:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-05, 03:34:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-06, 08:33:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-08, 23:42:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-09, 07:34:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-09, 22:08:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-10, 06:52:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-09, 10:04:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-10, 22:33:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-12, 06:44:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-16, 00:23:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-11, 03:30:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-12, 07:12:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 16:25:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:00:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 20:46:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 16:45:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:09:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-19, 19:44:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 23:18:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-20, 02:54:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 21:19:51
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 00:47:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-22, 20:38:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-22, 21:55:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-23, 06:03:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 07:27:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-19, 23:24:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 19:51:10
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 04:59:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 05:26:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-20, 20:27:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-21, 02:28:40
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Jul-23, 04:19:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-23, 04:26:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 06:18:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Zoidberg - 2015-Jul-23, 06:42:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-23, 20:23:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 00:01:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 02:09:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-27, 06:55:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-27, 17:56:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jul-27, 23:14:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:38:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-28, 04:00:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 22:01:51
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 02:58:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:05:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-28, 23:26:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 07:49:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-29, 12:58:37
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 23:19:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jul-30, 01:02:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:35:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 05:46:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 18:37:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-29, 17:27:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-29, 22:57:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:15:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 04:36:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:41:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 10:05:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Jul-30, 04:57:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Jul-30, 09:45:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 05:52:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 05:58:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 06:00:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 06:08:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-28, 16:47:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-28, 20:07:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-29, 02:27:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-29, 05:54:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-29, 16:20:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 20:37:55
Behavior - by Emil - 2015-Aug-28, 21:13:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-30, 18:19:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-30, 20:04:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 13:47:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:04:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 00:42:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-01, 18:28:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 20:53:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 22:18:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 19:15:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:21:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 19:39:33
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Aug-31, 20:24:58
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Aug-31, 23:30:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 00:24:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-01, 16:37:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-01, 19:15:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:45:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:54:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2015-Sep-07, 03:44:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:53:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 19:20:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 00:58:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-08, 00:34:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 01:02:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-07, 01:04:36
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:13:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 04:29:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 04:28:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 05:15:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 13:28:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-08, 13:44:55
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 04:40:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 05:46:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 18:15:32
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 05:27:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 06:21:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-09, 20:52:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 22:37:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-09, 23:36:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 00:43:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 00:58:25
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 01:22:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:33:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 01:42:59
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:07:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 03:55:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 04:36:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-10, 06:27:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 09:21:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 05:03:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 17:38:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 01:55:34
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 18:33:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 05:27:39
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:46:42
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-10, 18:48:03
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-11, 06:48:48
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:38:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:39:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 22:59:31
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:07:35
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-11, 23:53:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Krom - 2015-Sep-12, 00:04:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Sep-13, 06:40:18
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Jan-21, 02:57:26
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Jan-21, 03:21:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Duxide - 2016-Jan-23, 19:14:09
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Jan-23, 21:07:04
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Jan-23, 21:30:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 01:35:21
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 02:33:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2016-Feb-11, 06:45:54
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by General-Factor analyst - 2016-Feb-11, 07:37:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Emil - 2016-Feb-11, 09:29:40
[OBG] Nature of Race part 1 & 2 - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-27, 02:48:10
[OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2014-Dec-30, 23:58:10
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2014-Dec-31, 18:11:25
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-01, 00:20:51
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-01, 15:37:35
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-01, 23:36:17
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-04, 07:01:40
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-04, 07:27:12
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-05, 18:57:40
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-08, 00:15:45
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-09, 01:16:53
[OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-09, 23:33:46
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 04:16:31
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 05:19:49
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 05:51:03
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 18:15:29
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-11, 18:39:54
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 21:13:22
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-11, 23:47:15
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 00:17:13
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-12, 03:56:59
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-12, 06:47:22
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-12, 18:31:23
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-12, 18:44:54
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 21:51:03
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-12, 22:08:59
[OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-14, 04:25:25
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-14, 10:35:21
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-16, 21:34:48
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-17, 21:50:13
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-18, 02:46:31
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-18, 04:59:02
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-18, 06:00:51
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-19, 03:19:58
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-19, 21:02:17
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-20, 18:45:25
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 02:21:31
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 02:59:27
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-21, 03:00:44
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Duxide - 2015-Jan-21, 11:00:51
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-22, 00:06:32
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-22, 03:26:56
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-22, 06:12:47
Some comments - by Emil - 2015-Jan-23, 21:01:32
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Jan-24, 02:03:48
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-24, 06:57:50
Comments on version 3 - by Emil - 2015-Jan-24, 07:34:24
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-25, 05:19:51
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-25, 07:14:06
RE: Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-26, 02:29:36
RE: Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-26, 06:12:38
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Jan-28, 04:42:41
RE: Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Jan-30, 04:47:18
RE: Nature of Race part 1 - by Dalliard - 2015-Feb-04, 16:44:13
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Feb-12, 01:16:14
[OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-05, 22:39:52
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 01:33:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 01:36:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 04:23:24
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 22:05:46
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-06, 23:43:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-06, 23:59:47
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-07, 00:16:16
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 6 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-07, 03:00:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-07, 22:28:41
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-08, 03:25:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 4 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-08, 05:51:23
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-09, 03:27:19
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-09, 05:09:23
Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-13, 23:03:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by B.B. - 2015-Mar-19, 14:00:41
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-19, 17:21:11
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by B.B. - 2015-Mar-20, 13:13:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-19, 19:19:17
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-19, 19:27:20
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-20, 05:18:27
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 15:45:47
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-21, 17:51:14
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-24, 00:11:29
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-28, 21:00:38
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-29, 16:27:50
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-20, 21:26:44
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-21, 20:50:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-21, 21:49:27
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-21, 22:32:28
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-23, 02:14:31
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-24, 22:31:05
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-25, 01:03:09
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-25, 03:05:50
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-25, 03:20:05
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-25, 16:20:10
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-27, 22:49:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-27, 22:55:52
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-29, 19:42:54
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-30, 03:54:53
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-30, 21:27:12
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Emil - 2015-Mar-30, 22:04:02
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-31, 05:18:56
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-31, 20:30:42
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-01, 00:11:29
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-01, 01:52:41
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-01, 18:10:07
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-01, 19:59:55
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Peter Frost - 2015-Apr-02, 19:14:39
RE: Nature of Race Full Version - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-02, 20:58:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Peter Frost - 2015-Mar-13, 23:06:45
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-13, 23:12:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-16, 04:19:57
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-17, 00:07:49
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-17, 02:01:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 14:31:07
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-20, 19:21:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Emil - 2015-Mar-20, 20:49:14
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Mar-28, 20:28:56
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Mar-29, 15:38:20
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-03, 03:22:30
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-03, 04:19:12
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 06:28:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 18:29:11
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-03, 18:33:02
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race, part 3 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 01:09:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 01:14:15
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 01:59:22
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-04, 02:32:37
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 04:04:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 04:35:17
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 1 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-04, 23:26:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-06, 02:02:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-06, 03:39:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 2 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-06, 20:07:05
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race part 5 - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-06, 21:32:08
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-10, 01:36:38
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-10, 05:56:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-10, 06:27:06
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-11, 00:28:43
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-11, 01:11:50
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Meng Hu - 2015-Apr-13, 02:55:44
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-13, 07:08:01
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-13, 21:41:27
RE: [OBG] Nature of Race Full - by Chuck - 2015-Apr-14, 01:50:31
 
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