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[ODP] The Scandinavian WAIS IV Matrices as a Test of Dutton, te Nijenhuis and Rovaine

#31
The Finland-Swedes score worse than the Finns on every single PISA subtest ever done (when immigrants are excluded). The Finland-Swedes genetically closer to Swedes than to Finns, so i'm thinking that this speaks in favour of a partly genetic explanation


(2014-Nov-03, 22:19:47)Duxide Wrote:
(2014-Nov-03, 21:46:32)Meng Hu Wrote: My problem has to do with your conclusion. You say finnish people have higher Gf, given CPS PISA scores, even though WAIS-IV matrices show finnish people have lower Gf, because PISA data has larger N. Ok, but if you average the two, you will see that the difference is not obvious anymore. You didn't talk about the differences in tests. Gf is measured with only two tests. I don't know the properties of WAIS matrices (perhaps someone can show me a sample of what the items in that subtest may look like) but if it's different from CPS PISA, perhaps it's that difference that may explain why you get conflicting results. Also, I still don't know which of these two tests are the best approximate of Gf.


I agree with MH that there is not enough evidence that Finns have higher gf. There is much stronger evidence from PISA math, reading and science that they have higher scholastic aptitude or crystallized g, but this points towards an explanation in terms of better schools or higher C, which are likely to pump up scholastic intelligence much more so than fluid g.
Swedes living in Finland score lower in PISA CPS (there is data on this in the PISA report) and this may argue against a cultural explanation. The authors should say this.
However, a note of caution is necessary because the evidence for higher fluid g is not strong and the discrepancy between tests of scholastic aptitude and fluid intelligence may require a cultural explanation.
I'll approve publication provided these issues are dealt with in the discussion.

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#32
It is interesting that the Swedes in Finland do better than those in their homeland. Are they a selected group, or do they do better because of some environmental effect in Finland?
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#33
I don't know what's going on with the F-S and am working on a paper on them, which I can mail you a first draft of if it interests you.
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#34
I hav made the changes you request.

(2014-Nov-03, 22:19:47)Duxide Wrote:
(2014-Nov-03, 21:46:32)Meng Hu Wrote: My problem has to do with your conclusion. You say finnish people have higher Gf, given CPS PISA scores, even though WAIS-IV matrices show finnish people have lower Gf, because PISA data has larger N. Ok, but if you average the two, you will see that the difference is not obvious anymore. You didn't talk about the differences in tests. Gf is measured with only two tests. I don't know the properties of WAIS matrices (perhaps someone can show me a sample of what the items in that subtest may look like) but if it's different from CPS PISA, perhaps it's that difference that may explain why you get conflicting results. Also, I still don't know which of these two tests are the best approximate of Gf.


I agree with MH that there is not enough evidence that Finns have higher gf. There is much stronger evidence from PISA math, reading and science that they have higher scholastic aptitude or crystallized g, but this points towards an explanation in terms of better schools or higher C, which are likely to pump up scholastic intelligence much more so than fluid g.
Swedes living in Finland score lower in PISA CPS (there is data on this in the PISA report) and this may argue against a cultural explanation. The authors should say this.
However, a note of caution is necessary because the evidence for higher fluid g is not strong and the discrepancy between tests of scholastic aptitude and fluid intelligence may require a cultural explanation.
I'll approve publication provided these issues are dealt with in the discussion.

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#35
(2014-Nov-04, 04:12:38)Barleymow Wrote: I don't know what's going on with the F-S and am working on a paper on them, which I can mail you a first draft of if it interests you.


Can you attach it here? I am interested too...or email it to me please.
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#36
I approve publication
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#37
Could you post the newest version of the paper?
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#38
The updated version is on Gdocs. It's here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QqVs...AhfRE/edit#
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#39
I have now edited this to reply to Meng Hu's concern over the differences between WAIS IV matrices and PISA CPS. According to Rindermann's (2007) paper there is a correlation of 0.97 between PISA Problem Solving 03 and the matrices part of IQ tests. In addition, Pearson's and the OECD's descriptions of these tests make clear that they are extremely similar.
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#40
Uh oh. Better not tell the media that PISA tests are IQ tests!
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