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Ethnic Differences in the UK

#31
(2014-Oct-06, 03:16:49)Gnomon Wrote: I think that's very hard to reconcile with a large genotypic gap, especially in light of other trends in the UK. Perhaps a modest one (.5 SD?) at most.


I reviewed a bunch of studies earlier. Regarding the CAT study, I noted: "You will notice there that the UK Black-White gap is only about 0.5 SD. (Using the first regression formula presented in Wright and Strand (2005) –(.66V + .21Q + .18NV) — table 4, the FSIQ gap is 8.2 points.) And the UK Mixed-White FSIQ Gap is only 30% of that." The 30% (of the overall d value) is actually consistent with mixed race scores in the U.S. in that these scores also tend to be closer to the White mean.

Regarding the statement, "I think that's very hard to reconcile with a large genotypic gap", you really must start by considering what a large genotypic gap would minimally predict, holding environmental factors constant. I think a large additive genetic risk score, e.g., d = 1, between Europeans and West Africans is tenable. The Black West Indian population in the UK would be about 85% African. Based on the MCS genealogical data, mixed race B (Caribbean) -W would be about 40% African. Now, from what I have read, West Indian Black UK immigrants were somewhat selected (relative to stayers), though nothing compared to African ones. But let's assume no selectivity. We would have UK BWI/W genotypic d 0.85 and UK White-BWI/W genotypic d 0.40. Now let's assume a heritability for the cognitive tests mentioned of 0.75 for adults and 0.5 for adolescents. We would predict mean differences of, respectively, Adult B/W SQRT = (0.75)*0.85 = 0.74, Adolescent B/W = SQRT(0.50)*0.85 = 0.60, Adolescent mixed W-B/W = SQRT(0.50)*0.40 = 0.28. The adult gaps are consistent; the adolescent gaps are lower, but not horribly so.

Anyways, what we really need is more data and the best way to get that would be to write up a paper on this and see if we can elicit responses -- if you want we could write it critical of a racial hereditarian hypothesis. If you're uninterested in working on a paper, I will be less interested in continuing this discussion with you.
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#32
If there is non-additive heritability of g and some inbreeding in either whites or blacks or both, then biracials should be somewhat higher than the mean of the two populations' genotypic g. Heterosis/outbreeding. It was apparently found in Asian-White biracials.

Nagoshi, C. T. & Johnson, R. C. (1986). The ubiquity of g. Personality and Individual Differences, 7, 201-208.
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#33
Chuck,

All of these race designations are based on self-report, and when you use self-report there is a strong tendency for biracials to identify as "black." In the UK, "blacks" are increasingly biracial people who are more black than white, and "biracials" are biracial people who are much more white than black, i.e., they have visible African ancestry, but not enough to be considered "black."

This phenomenon was discussed in a recent BBC news article:

"As with the census and other surveys, ethnicity is defined in the UKHLS by the individual: if you regard yourself as black Caribbean or white British that is how you are counted.

Using this self-reported approach, the figures suggest that 0.88% of adults define themselves as "mixed".

But the survey - following 100,000 people in 40,000 households - asks another question: what is the ethnicity of your parents?

The footnote puts it: "If we use this alternative definition of mixed then 1.99% of adults are of mixed parentage."

More than twice as many over-16-year-olds are technically mixed race than describe themselves that way.

Underestimated

Self-definition, of course, also applies to under-16s (parents will normally described the ethnicity of their children) and this group accounts for half of the mixed race population.

There is research evidence which suggests the number of mixed-ethnicity children is also significantly larger than the official figures show.

Self-reported data show 2.9% of children described as mixed race. But the proportion of children living with parents from different ethnic groups or in a mixed-race household is shown to be 8.9%.

Further support for the contention that the number of mixed-race children is under-counted emerges from work on single parents.

The proportion of children in lone-parent households who are of a different ethnicity to the single mum or dad is 8%."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-15164970
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#34
It would be nice to have some admixture data to test Frost's idea with. We know that in the US, Blacks are 20-25% European depending on the area (more in the north). What's the number for UK?
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#35
"...and when you use self-report there is a strong tendency for biracials to identify as "black." In the UK, "blacks" are increasingly biracial people who are more black than white, and "biracials" are biracial people who are much more white than black, i.e., they have visible African ancestry, but not enough to be considered "black.""

This is more true in the US than elsewhere and should not be assumed of the Uk where the one drop rule has never existed. It may in fact be more likely(or as likely) that biracials "much more white than black" identify as White or "English" as the article below describes.

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21...perplexing

"Rob Ford of Manchester University points out that Caribbean folk are following an Irish pattern of integration, in that their partners are often working-class. The Irish parallel also suggests they will eventually be fully absorbed into the British population. Polls show that adults who are a mixture of white and black Caribbean tend to see themselves not so much as black, Caribbean or even as British, but rather as English—the identity of the comfortably assimilated."
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#36
Emil,

About half of Black Caribbean men in the UK are partnered with a woman from another ethnic background. It's very likely that half of "black" children in the UK are at least half-white by ancestry:

"Across the other ethnic groups, inter-ethnic partnerships were relatively rare, with the exception of the Black Caribbean group where nearly half of men in a partnership were partnered with a woman of a different ethnic group."
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites...report.pdf

Jm8,

Please, I wasn't "assuming" anything. I provided a reference with supporting statistics. There is a strong tendency in the UK to classify biracial individuals as "black." This isn't just a strange American tendency. Keep in mind that the "mixed" census category is recent and goes back only to 2001. Previously, UK biracial individuals were counted as "black."
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#37
(2014-Oct-08, 18:23:51)Peter Frost Wrote: Emil,

About half of Black Caribbean men in the UK are partnered with a woman from another ethnic background. It's very likely that half of "black" children in the UK are at least half-white by ancestry:

"Across the other ethnic groups, inter-ethnic partnerships were relatively rare, with the exception of the Black Caribbean group where nearly half of men in a partnership were partnered with a woman of a different ethnic group."
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites...report.pdf


Peter,

I don't see why your point is germane. Take the GL assessment report. The 1,978 West Indian "Black" kids perform 0.5 SD below the UK White kids, while the 1,589 West Indian+White kids perform about 0.20 SD below. Here, about half of the individuals with some Black ancestry are identified as biracial. Now, perhaps some of the mixed race kids are being identified as Blacks; if so, the Black scores would be inflated. But this leaves the overly small mixed race versus White difference. The point is that the (Black + 2 x Mixed race) gap is overly small. Do the math.
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#38
Maybe the 'mixed race' group is even more admixed than the 'black' group. This would produce the observed small gaps, no?
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#39
Chuck,

My point applies just as much to the "mixed" group as to the "black" group. A "mixed" person is someone who is predominantly white but has some visible African ancestry. Mariah Carey is often cited as a typical "biracial" person, yet she is only 1/4 black. If a person is 1/2 black, there is a high probability that he or she will simply be considered "black."
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#40
There's also the child (Nahla) of actress Halle Berry:

Quote:In a new interview with EBONY Magazine, Berry says (via TMZ), "I feel she's Black. I'm Black and I'm her mother, and I believe in the one-drop theory."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/08...20071.html

Halle Berry is actually mixed.

Quote:Berry was born Maria Halle Berry, though her name was legally changed to Halle Maria Berry at the age of five.[4] Berry's parents selected her middle name from Halle's Department Store, which was then a local landmark in her birthplace of Cleveland, Ohio.[5] Her mother, Judith Ann (née Hawkins),[6] who is Caucasian, and has English and German ancestry, was a psychiatric nurse.[7] Her father, Jerome Jesse Berry, was an African American hospital attendant in the same psychiatric ward where her mother worked; he later became a bus driver.[5][8] Berry's maternal grandmother, Nellie Dicken, was born in the United Kingdom (Sawley, Derbyshire, England), while her maternal grandfather, Earl Ellsworth Hawkins, was born in Ohio.[9] Berry's parents divorced when she was four years old; she and her older sister, Heidi Berry-Henderson,[10] were raised exclusively by her mother.[5] Berry has said in published reports that she has been estranged from her father since her childhood,[5][11] noting in 1992, "I haven't heard from him since [he left]. Maybe he's not alive."[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_Berry#Early_life

So, a rough estimate of Nahla's African admixture is half of her mothers since the father is Euro who average a very low African admixture. Since Berry is the daughter of one African American and one Caucasian (Euro most likely), and the mean African ancestry of African Americans is around 75%, this means that Berry herself is about 37.5% (75%/2) African. Her daughter is then 18.75% (37.5%/2) African, yet Berry calls her 'black' due to one-drop rule.

If practices like the above are widespread, it makes hard to conclude much from the UK data when we don't know the average admixture %.
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