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Ethnic Differences in the UK

#91
(2015-Jan-11, 21:41:47)Jm8 Wrote:
(2015-Jan-11, 19:38:30)Jm8 Wrote: Piffer also, in the above link estimates UK Telegu IQ at 88 , UK Sri Lankan at 81, Baghdad Bengali at 85, and Texas Gujarati at 93,. These seem questionable considering (significantly higher) South Asian IQ and gsce performance in the UK, and socioeconomic levels and known IQ data(e.g.:Richwine) from the US. I believe immigrant South Asian Pisa scores are also higher, though low in India.


Correction; I misread the spreadsheet, which gives some higher S. Asian estimates.
Still, Immigrant S, Asian scores esp. the Texas Gujarati do seem low in light of Indian (1st and second generation) performance in the US esp. given immigrant selection.


The final analysis (with genotypic intelligence and impact of socioeconomic factors) is published here: https://thewinnower.com/papers/estimatin...migrations
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#92
Is it possible to estimate the Sri Lankan UK and Indian Telugu UK GCSE scores from the main groups they are put in?

If they score near or above the white Europeans you can directly falsify the predictions of two of Piffers populations. It seems highly likely that this is the case.

EDIT:
From what I gather, Asians in the UK mainly refer to South Asians, Sri Lankans identify as other Asians. Other Asians and Indians do better than white Brits in the main GCSE including maths and English as of 2012/2013. Also considering that peasants from Bangladesh do similarly well as other Asians, it makes it even more likely that both Sri Lankans and Indian Telugu do at least similar to white Brits, most likely better.
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#93
Found something.

http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fil...dren_0.pdf

According to this Sri Lankans in 2003 did really well in 5+GSCE A-C. Second only to the Chinese!.

There are some other interesting things too with a better break down by ethnicity.

Also I am not 100% sure about the data point and samples. Should be good though.
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#94
They don't do well in DK though. Selective migration for one or both countries, sampling error?
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#95
(2015-Jan-31, 14:27:32)Emil Wrote: They don't do well in DK though. Selective migration for one or both countries, sampling error?


Well part of them were well educated, the other part are refugees. In Denmark, its only refugees I think. So part of it could be selection, but nobody really knows Sri Lanka's actual genotypic average IQ. The country isn't doing too bad for its 79 average. 88 is the estimate from the 4 genes by Piffer for UK Tamils IRRC, not for all Sri Lankans.

Both groups in Piffers polygenic score in the UK are within groups that do exceptionally well, with no sign of them doing badly anywhere and groups like Bangladeshis who cannot be selected enough to account for d have substantially closed the gap. So you can make a educated guess cant you?

I highly doubt that they do worse than white Brits.

Also I don't know about sampling error thats why I said so. Its from the department of education though so most likely its good enough.
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#96
(2015-Jan-31, 09:47:26)Zoidberg Wrote: Found something.

http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fil...dren_0.pdf

According to this Sri Lankans in 2003 did really well in 5+GSCE A-C. Second only to the Chinese!.

There are some other interesting things too with a better break down by ethnicity.

Also I am not 100% sure about the data point and samples. Should be good though.


Sometimes it's better to look at a broader range of data. Marta De Philippis looked at the correlation between the scores of ~ 30,000 immigrants across dozens of countries and three waves of tests and found that nation of origin cognitive ability scores correlated with second generation emigrant scores at about 0.40 (Table 5 model 2 in the attached). This is similar to what I had found using a cruder method. This is consistent with the position that half of the global variance has a genealogical basis, allowing for certain corrections. The percent is a population level one, of course -- so it doesn't invalidate the point which you are making which concerns specific populations.


Attached Files
.pdf   Parent's country of oriign.pdf (Size: 598.83 KB / Downloads: 319)
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#97
@Chuck.

Thanks for more info.
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#98
The reliability of SNP's when re: africans is uncertain.

"Interpretation of SNP countings are difficult due to differential linkage disequilibrium patterns across populations."


https://thewinnower.com/papers/2735-poly...fer-method


"...Two reviews found substantial cross-validity for the Eurasian population (Europeans and East Asians), and less for Africans (usually African Americans) (23,24). The first review only relied on SNPs with p<α and found weaker results. This is expected because using only these is a threshold effect, as discussed earlier.

The second review (from 2013; 299 included GWAS) found much stronger results, probably because it included more SNPs and because they also adjusted for statistical power. Doing so, they found that: ~100% of SNPs replicate in other European samples when accounting for statistical power, ~80% in East Asian samples but only ~10% in the African American sample (not adjusted for statistical power, which was ~60% on average). There were fairly few GWAS for AAs however, so some caution is needed in interpreting the number. Still, this throws some doubt on the usefulness of GWAS results from Europeans or Asians used on African samples (or reversely)."

"7. POOR AFRICAN-EURASIAN CROSS-VALIDITY AND THE PIFFER METHOD

The findings related to the relatively poor, but non-zero cross-validity of GWAS betas between European and African samples throw some doubt on the SNP evidence found by Piffer in his studies of the population/country IQ and cognitive ability SNP factors (29). If the betas for the SNPs identified in European sample GWAS do not work well as predictors for Africans, they would be equally unsuitable for estimating mean genotypic cognitive ability from SNP frequencies. Thus, further research is needed to more precisely estimate the cross-racial validity of GWAS betas, especially with regards to African vs. Eurasian samples."
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#99
I said I wouldn't post any more about epigenetics in this topic, but I changed my mind.

They are attacking the entire genetic model of heritability studies and these additive SNP correlations, with epigenetics as their main proof against it. They are getting published on major scientific journals now and also being cited by potential reviewers of the work here.

Heres a correspondence.
Attack:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...12060/full
Defence:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...9/abstract

The defence failed by the way, since they try to play off epigenetics as GxE and rGE, which it isn't.

I knew this was coming, you are lucky they don't have the silver bullet... yet.
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(2015-Nov-17, 19:21:59)Jm8 Wrote: The findings related to the relatively poor, but non-zero cross-validity of GWAS betas between European and African samples throw some doubt on the SNP evidence found by Piffer in his studies of the population/country IQ and cognitive ability SNP factors (29). If the betas for the SNPs identified in European sample GWAS do not work well as predictors for Africans, they would be equally unsuitable for estimating mean genotypic cognitive ability from SNP frequencies. Thus, further research is needed to more precisely estimate the cross-racial validity of GWAS betas, especially with regards to African vs. Eurasian samples."


There results are not very informative since the studies looked at different trait associated alleles. Thus, there was an apples to oranges comparison. The African-European comparisons concerned primarily Asthma related alleles, which show low replicability across all populations. You would want to compare the effect of alleles associated with the same traits, for example height, to get a sense if associations that replicated between Asians and Europeans also did between European and Africans. (I pointed this out to Emil, but he neglected to comment on the issue.)

Regarding the alleles for cognitive ability, the association -- at least with regards to cognitive scores -- has been replicated in an East Asian sample and in a nationally representative African American one.
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