[Zoidberg]

[quote='Zoidberg' pid='2330' dateline='1416909916']
Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations. You will notice that by the 3rd the Reading and Numeracy gaps, averaged across ages, come out to about 5 AQ points. About 1/2 of Antilleans and 1/4 Surinamese parents would have out-married, so the European Admixture would be higher in the third than second than first generation. (One sees a similar pattern amongst U.S. Hispanics, just the gaps decrease much less).

It would also be good to know the "purely" mixed race score is in Holland. Like the ones in UK.

I think if you can prove the mixed race score virtually vanished like in the UK and prove its not because of selective mates you got a bullet proof case against HBD with regards to race.

[Emil]

The Turks do very poorly in Denmark. There are PISA scores available for them, see Table 2.3. Their crime rate goes up in the second generation. It is the largest immigrant population in Denmark with >61k.

http://edu.au.dk/fileadmin/edu/Forskning...k_2012.pdf

[Zoidberg]

Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy..._FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.

[Chuck]

Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy..._FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.

I don't focus on the Black African scores for reasons discussed prior:

(a) we know that BA do poorly in Africa
(b) we know that UK BA parents are, on average, super selected e.g., "Easterly and Nyarko, 2005. Is the brain drain good for Africa?"
© we know that the apparent good academic performance is present in the UK BA first generation

So a selection effect is confounded with school/cultural related factors effect. I think it's very probable that there is a strong selection effect since I have no doubt that Black Africans are biologically depressed in CA, for, at least in part, environmental reasons, and thus that a representative sample of first generation BA should underperform.

BC are more interesting because it is well documented that in the 1st Gen, they started out depressed in CA (thus there is less room for a selection argument).

[Chuck]

Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy..._FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.

Could you review my papers on race (submitted to OBG)? Your reviews won't count as peer reviews since you are not registered as a peer here or anywhere, but I could use the input.

[Meng Hu]

chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?

[Chuck]

chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?

Black African migrants to the UK are more recent; many kids are first generation and are bilingual. They have highly selected parents. Black Caribbean migrants came in the '50s to the '80s. BC age 10 kids would mostly be 3rd generation, with a few second; nearly all speak English and have English speaking parents. Relative to the Caribbean average, I think BC migrants were selected some, just as BC who went to Canada were. I would have to dig up the sources, though. The selection, though, was much less. So selection (and language) effects are less of a factor with this subgroups.

[Jm8]

"a) we know that BA do poorly in Africa
(b) we know that UK BA parents are, on average, super selected e.g., "Easterly and Nyarko, 2005. Is the brain drain good for Africa?"
© we know that the apparent good academic performance is present in the UK BA first generation

So a selection effect is confounded with school/cultural related factors effect. I think it's very probable that there is a strong selection effect since I have no doubt that Black Africans are biologically depressed in CA, for, at least in part, environmental reasons, and thus that a representative sample of first generation BA should underperform......."


Here you seem to argue that Black African immigrant selection looks limited, albeit still significant (and greater than BC selection)
http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/20...l-tenable/

[Zoidberg]

chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?

Black African migrants to the UK are more recent; many kids are first generation and are bilingual. They have highly selected parents. Black Caribbean migrants came in the '50s to the '80s. BC age 10 kids would mostly be 3rd generation, with a few second; nearly all speak English and have English speaking parents. Relative to the Caribbean average, I think BC migrants were selected some, just as BC who went to Canada were. I would have to dig up the sources, though. The selection, though, was much less. So selection (and language) effects are less of a factor with this subgroups.

Well those are still Sub Saharan Africans who are now able to match Northern Europeans in Europe without reverting to the mean and after catching up from a lower base in both IQ tests and educational attainment. This hasn't happened before in the debate as far as I can remember.

Selection might be part of it yes, but they do start from a lower base and I think are pretty poor financially on average, even less than BC. However even if you can argue selection, the mere fact they can do this after +50000 years is ominous.

At what point do you think it will be safe to call the debate and run away? When BC erase the gap with white brits? They are within a trivial hairs length gap from other whites in GCSEs now. Possibly erased it last year. I mean the gap to white brits itself isn't big either.

It takes a lot of evidence to build up scientific racialism but it doesn't take a lot to demolish it. Liberal egalitarians never needed a lack of average difference, but racialists desperately need a big enough one in IQ/education. Without that its all over.

[Chuck]

Here you seem to argue that Black African immigrant selection looks limited, albeit still significant (and greater than BC selection)
http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/20...l-tenable/

I was being purposefully contrarian in hopes of getting statistically informed replies. I discussed the issue in more detail here:
http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/20...-you-wish/
For example: http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/20...mment-2494
There are too many statistical uncertainties to estimate IQ/educational selection at this point. To be clear, BA are very educationally selected. Since we don't have a good estimate of the genetic educational-IQ correlation in Africa, that doesn't tell us much regarding IQ.

Why don't you dig up statistics for us? I will point you to the sources if needed.