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(2014-Oct-07, 07:38:36)Emil Wrote: [ -> ]It would be nice to have some admixture data to test Frost's idea with. We know that in the US, Blacks are 20-25% European depending on the area (more in the north). What's the number for UK?

Self-identifying British Blacks are mostly African. Shriver, et al. (2003) estimated 87.9% as compared to 78.7% for U.S. Blacks.
Good find. However:

Quote:We have examined three population samples: a sample of 232 African and African-American individuals living in Washington, D.C., a sample of 173 British African Caribbean persons, and a sample of 187 individuals of European-American ancestry living in State College, Pa. The sample from Washington, D.C. consisted of self-reported African Americans from the Howard University campus and surrounding area. Recruitment was primarily through flyers placed around the University and by word of mouth. Volunteers came from the student body, staff, faculty and the surrounding community. This sample of individuals represents a heterogeneous selection of persons with regards to personal history, national origins and cultural and biological backgrounds. In general terms, this sample is a selection of volunteers, who would declare in the US that they are Black with primarily African ancestry. The British African Caribbean sample was ascertained in Britain through flyers and advertisements regarding the study. Volunteers who phoned in were invited to participate if all four of their grandparents were of African-Caribbean ancestry. The European-American sample from State College, Pa. was collected as part of an ongoing study of the genetics of common traits in the Anthropometrics Laboratory located in the Penn State General Clinical Research Center.

For each of these surveys, volunteers contacted the study coordinators and then either came to the clinic or were then visited at their place of abode where they gave informed consent, filled out a demographic questionnaire and gave cheek cells or blood for DNA. Each person at all three sites was then measured for skin pigmentation by using a DermaSpectrometer (cyberDerm, Media, Pa.) three times on the medial aspect of each arm and these values were averaged together as previously described (Shriver and Parra 2001). Following the interview and examination, blood for DNA was taken by venipuncture, except in the British African Caribbean sample where cheek swabs were used to collect DNA samples. This study was approved by the IRB committees of both Penn State University (State College and British samples) and Howard University (Washington, D.C. samples).

Since the people who phoned in consider themselves African Caribbean, but some of them did not have 4 African Caribbean ancestors (as far as they know), we don't know what the admixture is of the group who consider themselves "African Caribbean" in the UK. This is a selected sample for higher African Caribbean ancestry.
If we look at "blacks" in the British West Indies, European admixture ranges from a high of 12.4 in Jamaica to a low of 10.2 in Barbados, see:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...398.x/full

I find it very difficult to believe that the degree of European admixture has not increased at all over the past sixty years that the Afro-Caribbean community has resided in England. Moreover, at present, half of Afro-Caribbean men in England are living with a non-black partner. The "black" children now entering English schools are to a large extent a product of this kind of cohabitation.

You could counter-argue that these children self-identify as "mixed" and not as "black." If that were the case, we should see a sharp decline in the number of "black" children. But that isn't the case.
Unless there was new immigrants coming in from the same place, no?
Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...w-gemeente

This shows some more info on the improvements or lack there of in grades since 2012.
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...ouw-school

It shows the scores by schools. The schools with the lowest grades are still heavily immigrant though, seem to be few so perhaps they have decreased in number. Also saw one Islamic school that did pretty well.

Bottom line I cant really tell. Might help though, so here you go.

Edit: The first link is some sort of rating other than the scores I think. The second one actually shows the scores.
(2014-Nov-25, 12:05:16)Zoidberg Wrote: [ -> ]Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...w-gemeente

This shows some more info on the improvements or lack there of in grades since 2012.
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...ouw-school

It shows the scores by schools. The schools with the lowest grades are still heavily immigrant though, seem to be few so perhaps they have decreased in number. Also saw one Islamic school that did pretty well.

Bottom line I cant really tell. Might help though, so here you go.

Edit: The first link is some sort of rating other than the scores I think. The second one actually shows the scores.

Thanks for looking. That really doesn't give us what we want though.
(2014-Nov-25, 12:05:16)Zoidberg Wrote: [ -> ]Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...w-gemeente

Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations. You will notice that by the 3rd the Reading and Numeracy gaps, averaged across ages, come out to about 5 AQ points. About 1/2 of Antilleans and 1/4 Surinamese parents would have out-married, so the European Admixture would be higher in the third than second than first generation. (One sees a similar pattern amongst U.S. Hispanics, just the gaps decrease much less). Also Surinamese are about 52% Indian + Javanese (who are mostly South Asian), 31% Creole, and 10% African -- it's not obvious what their predicted genotypic IQ would be. Nonetheless, the (3rd generation) gaps are pretty small in my opinion. It would be interesting to look at them by generation by parental endogenous status. Adjusted for Dutch ancestry there might well be a year x generation effect such that the gaps vanish. Ya, as I've said, the European results don't well support a strong hereditarian hypothesis -- at least nothing like Lynn (2006/2008) suggested. But they don't yet challenge a modest one.
By the way, here were the most recent (2014) integration report education results. See also on page 8 of the official report, "Gemiddeld percentage vragen goed op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs naar geslacht, 2013". I'm not seeing much change from 2008, though I couldn't find Cito standardized scores. So I don't know.
(2014-Nov-30, 05:44:19)Chuck Wrote: [ -> ]
(2014-Nov-25, 12:05:16)Zoidberg Wrote: [ -> ]Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenlan...w-gemeente

Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations...

Has anyone done a review of IQ studies for Turks? From what I've seen, they do consistently poorly in Europe. There are lots of complaints about them in Germany and the Netherlands. I looked at some of the UK studies, and the Turks ranked near the very bottom in academic performance -- I think even lower than Blacks -- but the UK Turk population is quite small.

On the other hand, the Turkish population in the US does okay, but again it's a small population and probably positively selected and unrepresentative, so it's hard to come to any firm conclusions.

Turkey has a large population (76.5 million) and could be a source of future immigrants into Europe, so it's not an irrelevant question.
(2014-Nov-30, 06:45:07)Chuck Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, here were the most recent (2014) integration report education results. See also on page 8 of the official report, "Gemiddeld percentage vragen goed op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs naar geslacht, 2013". I'm not seeing much change from 2008, though I couldn't find Cito standardized scores. So I don't know.

You mean: "Gemiddeld percentage goed beantwoorde vragen op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs van Cito" right?

Percentage of correctly answered questions for maths and language? Yeah those have not changed much. They seem to have gone up and down for everyone pretty much equally.

Does it account for generation or is it including new immigrants? I assume its including new immigrants but since I cant understand Dutch I want to make sure.

As for the rest, no killer blow yet thats for sure.
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